Tuesday, February 21, 2006

Where is God?


A friend of mine was telling me recently that while at the dinner table, his son asked him, "Dad, where is God?" And before he could answer, Grandpa piped up as he pointed at the ceiling, "He's up there." My friend gently clarified his own father's statement by replying, "He's everywhere, son."

As my friend finished up his anecdote, he asked me, "So if God is everywhere, is He in hell? Because people have always said that what makes hell so awful is the lack of God's presence."

My answer to him was that if we grant that there is indeed a hell, God is most certainly present there. In fact, that's what makes it hell. And why is it eternal? Because God is eternal, of course. We have for far too long imagined a hell where God has put Satan in charge, and he gets to do as he pleases in his infernal kingdom. We hear echoes of Milton's Satan claiming "Tis better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven."

But this is not biblical at all. God is eternal, and He is everywhere. The Holiness whose response to obedience-in-faith is love, is the same Holiness whose response to rebellion and sin is wrath.

A friend of mine once made this analogy regarding the wrath of God: When we sit around a campfire on a cool evening, we are warmed and comforted by its power. But if we were to stand over its flames, the very same fire which comforted us would burn our flesh and consume us. The nature of the fire never changed, but our actions in relation to that fire assuredly changed the consequences that befell us.

I'm also reminded of that Great Lion of the Chronicles of Narnia. There were those who shuddered and cringed, and were filled with terror and hatred at the very sound of the name "Aslan." And yet, there were those who were filled with joy and comfort and strength at the mention of the very same name. What was bitterness and fury to one, was sweeter than honey to another- and yet it was the very same Lion.

What think ye?

9 Comments:

Blogger Mike Spreng said...

Makes sense, but it doesn't match up with Lewis' teachings of hell. Not that he's right, but I think his view is interesting...

February 21, 2006 7:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We see in Psalm 139:8 that God is omnipresent, even specifying Sheol; however, we see in II Thess. 1:9 that "they" (1:8), will suffer away from the presence of the Lord. This seems to be a contradiction, but we also see that when Christians live in sin they are blinded by darkness (I John 2:11). I would say that God is present in Hell, yet a person (in Hell) is cut off from knowing His presence in that they are eternally blinded.

February 21, 2006 9:18 PM  
Blogger DrewDog said...

Thanks, Mike and Doug.

Mike: Could you expand on Lewis' beliefs? I think I know where you are going.

Doug: I read that passage from 2 Thess to Rob, and he pointed out that it seems the only thing that Paul is saying here is that the Lord Jesus will not be in hell. That seems to make sense to me.

What do you all think?

February 22, 2006 8:58 AM  
Blogger DrewDog said...

Good point, Aaron. That is a great Edwards quote. I see you're going Piper on us all. JK

February 22, 2006 9:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, you changed from your first response--it is your site I guess:). I do like your second response better. As far as the word, presence, it is the same definition as used in Ps 139:8, which would imply a contradiction from our limited point of view. However, now that we have further input from Rob, I see that the Psalm passage points to God while the 2 Thessalonians passage points to Jesus Christ. That defeats the mention of this next point, but I'll give it anyway. Being a good Piper fan also, I went to the more accurate translation (ESV), and found an interesting footnote (Crossway Bibles) that says that other texts use "destruction that comes from" rather than "destruction, away from". Your analogy with the flames that warm are the flames that destroy aids in understanding this.

What do you think?

February 22, 2006 10:08 AM  
Blogger DrewDog said...

Doug:

Yeah, I took down my former comment since I didn't even bother checking the passage for context before I wrote it. Not a very good idea.

Aaron: If you had copied most of Piper's material, I doubt you would ever admit it.

February 22, 2006 12:39 PM  
Blogger Mike Spreng said...

I believe CS falls under the theology of "annihilationism." He, like Edward Fudge, believe(d) that the reprobate are annihilated after judgment. If anyone out there holds to this view, I would love to hear your argument. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think that theology is bold and logical, but it seems to have big holes, also.

February 22, 2006 5:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dont think Lewis was an anihilationist. Read Great Divorce. If anything, he believes all people have a change at salvation, even if it is a chance they dont take. He almost takes a position that suggests that Hell is inconsequential to God.

February 22, 2006 6:40 PM  
Blogger Mike Spreng said...

Anonymous,
Lewis makes some pretty bold stamtents in his book The problem of Pain. He speaks of hell being an intolerable doctrine and that hell is not so much duration as it is finality. He taught in the direction of annihilation, no doubt. But he also taught in a traditional direction...so???

February 22, 2006 8:39 PM  

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